Need to get this right once and for all

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Need to get this right once and for all
Posted on: 26.12.2013 by Temple Cervelli
I have Macbook Pro, Traktor Scratch Pro II with 2 Kontrol X1's, Audio 10, Ableton Live 8, Allen & Heath Xone 92, and Maschine.

Now after watching DJTT's How I Play video with Chris Liebing, it got me on doing the same thing, tho i discussed it on here and realised that i couldnt achieve the same thing as I only had an audio 10, and needed a bigger souncard like Chris' (RME fireface UCx i believe), plus he has 2 laptops, one running traktor and the other running ableton with maschine as a plugin.

So, my set up goes like this:

4 traktor decks, on channel 1-4 on the Xone 92.
Maschine opened as a plugin in Ableton Live 8, with the sound coming out from my xone 92 MIC/RTN 1. I have this routed by RCA from the MAIN OUT 1/2 of the audio 10, and into the Return 1 of the xone 92.

All good, i can apply ableton fx/plugins over my maschine stuff, cool.

now i have RCA from Audio 10 IN 3/4 (the first input at the back) and this is going to the AUX 1 of the Xone 92. (im not sure what this is even doing, as when i unplug this connection, everything still plays, and i can still apply FX over maschine from ableton. Someone who helped me with setting it up told me to do that.

Anyhow, now that im able to apply ableton fx over maschine, and have that out my xone 92, plus have all 4 channels/traktor decks, im happy. But still wanting to achieve something that was the main focus, applying ableton over Traktor decks......

Now i know i cant apply ableton fx over all 4 traktor decks as apparently i need more outputs on my soundcard, i only have 4 INs from the track decks, and 1 IN from MAIN IN. The strange thing is, when i create another audio track in ableton and set the 'audio from' to the input that i routed the Aux 1 to, so, Input 3/4 of my audio10, i dropped a delay onto the 'insert effects here' section, and when i turn the AUX 1 knob which is above the xone 92 channel, so channel 1, i could hear the delay over my traktor track.... tho i had to be careful because if i turned it up too much, it sounded like it was going to blow up! And also, i had to press 'monitor' to IN, as thats the only way it worked, maschine is just on 'auto'

It applied the FX on everything single channel... so 1-4/deck A-D, i could use the Aux 1 knobs above each channel to send it into the delay, now this didnt seem right as i need 4 extra outputs on a soundcard to achieve this, so how am i doing it?

The weird thing is, i changed the delay to a reverb, and when turning the Aux 1 knob for each channel, it reverbed the track, but there was also a delay, as if the track was doubling up, so this makes me believe that theres something bad going on, where my audio is somewhere looping up/doubling on each channel, because i should be able to turn the aux 1 knob of each channel up fully so i get the full 100% of the FX, but its not happening like that, its really loud and sounds like its about to blow.

So does anyone know what is going on here? I've added some screenshots of how things in ableton are. Hope someone can help.

And maybe its that i simply cant safely apply traktor decks with FX from ableton as i dont have the spare outs on my soundcard, its just strange that can actually do it, it just doesnt feel safe, i might accidentally pull the aux 1 knob to high and blow the world up.

IMAGE 1: http://imgur.com/P19U3Ee,ywliE5o,a211AzF#0
IMAGE 2: http://imgur.com/P19U3Ee,ywliE5o,a211AzF#1
IMAGE 3: http://imgur.com/P19U3Ee,ywliE5o,a211AzF#2


Thank you

EDIT: uploaded images elsewhere and included link.
Rolanda Clodfelder
17.01.2014
Originally Posted by Superfreak
Hm okay I'll try this out and see how it goes. Would I just set the 'audio device' of both Traktor and Ableton to 'soundflower'? I'll go by what you said, and if I need help ill reply back here mate cheers
Traktor output: sound flower (external mixing to channels 1-8)
In Maschine: Soundflower (channe 9-10)
Ableton input device : sound flower (1-10)
Ableton Output device: NI audio 10 with your 5 Returns going to the respective 1-10 onto your mixer Channels / Aux

Hope that helps
Temple Cervelli
17.01.2014
Hm okay I'll try this out and see how it goes. Would I just set the 'audio device' of both Traktor and Ableton to 'soundflower'? I'll go by what you said, and if I need help ill reply back here mate cheers
Rolanda Clodfelder
16.01.2014
If it were me in your position I'd probably go the virtual input route:

1. Install sound flower and set your Traktor Soundcard to Sound flower and Outputs to virtual ones
2. Output of each Traktor decks to the Virtual soundflower Ins onto individual Channels in Ableton
3. Input of Machine also using the virtual sound flower input in Ableton
4. Set up 5 return channels in Ableton with your ext out corresponding to the channels on your Audio 10 and sends on Channels 1-5 respectively.

This should allow you to have effects on each send channel individually.
Temple Cervelli
16.01.2014
Okay I have it working now, can apply Ableton FX over all 4 Traktor decks, all good. Only worry ive got now is that even if there is no FX on the audio track in Ableton, I can still here a kind of doubling up/slight phasing/echoing sound when I turn up the Aux 1 knob to the near fullest.

Why is this? Because if I'm using a reverb in Ableton, and I turn the Aux 1 knob all the way up, I'll get the full reverb and then the doubling up/delay as well....
Temple Cervelli
15.01.2014
Okay, yeah I kinda knew that, the Aux 1 knob above each channel is for sending each channel into the effect, of course it only works when the MIC/RTN fader is up. I just wasnt sure what the Aux 1 & 2 knobs that are on the MIC/RTN section were for, I"ll make sure they dont get touched though, as it sounds like it'll blow my speakers.

This brings me to believeing that i need a soundcard with more I/O, as i have Maschine's volume coming out from the MIC.RTN fader 1, so if ive got something on maschine playing, ill have the MIC/RTN fader up, and that causes my traktor tracks to get slightly FX'd, so is there anyway to counter this? I might just only want to have sound maschine sounds playing out, and not have any of my traktor decks being Fx'd?
Nancey Inderlied
13.01.2014
Originally Posted by Superfreak
Okay, I believe I know the problem....

ive taking all plugins off of the audio track thats in ableton, and when i turn the aux 1 knob on the xone92 up for each channel/traktor deck, while the MIC/RTN 1 fader is up, im still getting a doubling up sound.... like as if its starting to delay.....

So this has got to be the problem, theres already some kind of audio double-up/delay on the aux 1 somewhere, so when i add my ableton FX on the audio track sand turn that up, its also doubling up, hence why it sounds loud and like its going to blow....

Not sure whats happening...!?

EDIT: Taken out the AUX 1 to Audio 10 MAIN IN 1/2 lead, no doublin problems now, but of course, i cant do any FX, so its just something to do with the aux 1....
I believe you just need to familiarise yourself with how an Auxiliary Bus works. The AUX 1/2 knobs above each channel are volume controls for auxiliary sends for that channel out of the AUX 1/2 output on the back. By turning up the AUX 1/2 knob on channels 1-4, you're sending that channel's input to the A10 via the AUX 1/2 output. That signal is then returned to the Mic/Aux inputs on the left.

By turning up the AUX 1 knob on the return channel, you're feeding back the returned signal into the send bus. I'm not sure why you would want to send the return channel back into the bus in the first place, but don't do that, it's not the way a send/return is meant to be run.
Temple Cervelli
12.01.2014
Okay, I believe I know the problem....

ive taking all plugins off of the audio track thats in ableton, and when i turn the aux 1 knob on the xone92 up for each channel/traktor deck, while the MIC/RTN 1 fader is up, im still getting a doubling up sound.... like as if its starting to delay.....

So this has got to be the problem, theres already some kind of audio double-up/delay on the aux 1 somewhere, so when i add my ableton FX on the audio track sand turn that up, its also doubling up, hence why it sounds loud and like its going to blow....

Not sure whats happening...!?

EDIT: Taken out the AUX 1 to Audio 10 MAIN IN 1/2 lead, no doublin problems now, but of course, i cant do any FX, so its just something to do with the aux 1....
Temple Cervelli
12.01.2014
Yeah I believe so, i have got it running now, and am achieving what i want, its just that i have maschine's volume coming from the mic/rtn 1 fader, and thats also the fader im using to send the ableton FX over traktor with.

Things sound better now, ive noticed, that scary feedback sounds comes from the very first AUX 1 knob on the xone 92, which is above/on the MIC/RTN section of the mixer, to apply the ableton FX on traktor decks i have to turn the AUX 1 knobs that are on the top of the channel section of the xone 92, so maybe i should just stear clear of those first 2 aux 1 knobs on the mic/rtn section....?
Nancey Inderlied
12.01.2014
From what I can tell, you're just having issues with gain staging. Doubling up the FX return and the Maschine output on the Return channels is most likely what's causing the overload, but as long as your metering and gains all check out, you shouldn't be having any major issues with it. Turning the aux send up too loud seems to be overloading the A10/Ableton's input, and your input metering should reveal any issues.
Temple Cervelli
12.01.2014
Originally Posted by johndavid
I believe it's safe to say you're overbelieveing this

The A10 card is fine for your needs. Might want to change the ins and outs to make the setup "cleaner" but really .... it won't change a thing.

There is no need for more outputs on the A10 unless you want more FX channels.

You always have the option of doing your FX send internally, or using the Aux1(or 2 ... ) into the A10.

There will be a "delay" inside ableton ... reduce your buffer

The feedback loop sound you describe ... I can't explain why, but it's also happened to me when I've run a similar setup, perhaps the Aux1 on Mic/Rtn 1 is sending back sound to your card?


A10 input:
AUX 1 send -> main 9-10

A10 outputs:
A-D-> deck A-D
output Main 9-10 -> Aux 1 /Mic Rtn1

like this the Aux 1 on all channels will be directly going to Aux 1 output.
There is no need for 4 Aux channels, unless that's what you "want". The setup is fine as is.

It's perfectly normal to have to arm/monitor the FX track on ableton.
Okay, I have it routed all like you said, (it already was, its just that im using Audio 10 MAIN OUT going to MIC1/RETURN 1 for Maschine, thats where my maschine sound is coming from)

So im trying it now without maschine, and will see how it works, all i want is to use 1 plugin, be it a delay or reverb in ableton, over all 4 traktor decks, and of course, i want to keep maschine in the set up, i have a feeling that the reason im hearing this really loud sounds thats about to blow when i turn the aux 1 knob up really high, is something to do with having maschine on mic1/rtn fader?

What would my settings in ableton be for this? the INs/outputs? and the audio to/from?

I can upload screenshots of how i currently have it if you want


Cheers
Temple Cervelli
26.12.2013
I have Macbook Pro, Traktor Scratch Pro II with 2 Kontrol X1's, Audio 10, Ableton Live 8, Allen & Heath Xone 92, and Maschine.

Now after watching DJTT's How I Play video with Chris Liebing, it got me on doing the same thing, tho i discussed it on here and realised that i couldnt achieve the same thing as I only had an audio 10, and needed a bigger souncard like Chris' (RME fireface UCx i believe), plus he has 2 laptops, one running traktor and the other running ableton with maschine as a plugin.

So, my set up goes like this:

4 traktor decks, on channel 1-4 on the Xone 92.
Maschine opened as a plugin in Ableton Live 8, with the sound coming out from my xone 92 MIC/RTN 1. I have this routed by RCA from the MAIN OUT 1/2 of the audio 10, and into the Return 1 of the xone 92.

All good, i can apply ableton fx/plugins over my maschine stuff, cool.

now i have RCA from Audio 10 IN 3/4 (the first input at the back) and this is going to the AUX 1 of the Xone 92. (im not sure what this is even doing, as when i unplug this connection, everything still plays, and i can still apply FX over maschine from ableton. Someone who helped me with setting it up told me to do that.

Anyhow, now that im able to apply ableton fx over maschine, and have that out my xone 92, plus have all 4 channels/traktor decks, im happy. But still wanting to achieve something that was the main focus, applying ableton over Traktor decks......

Now i know i cant apply ableton fx over all 4 traktor decks as apparently i need more outputs on my soundcard, i only have 4 INs from the track decks, and 1 IN from MAIN IN. The strange thing is, when i create another audio track in ableton and set the 'audio from' to the input that i routed the Aux 1 to, so, Input 3/4 of my audio10, i dropped a delay onto the 'insert effects here' section, and when i turn the AUX 1 knob which is above the xone 92 channel, so channel 1, i could hear the delay over my traktor track.... tho i had to be careful because if i turned it up too much, it sounded like it was going to blow up! And also, i had to press 'monitor' to IN, as thats the only way it worked, maschine is just on 'auto'

It applied the FX on everything single channel... so 1-4/deck A-D, i could use the Aux 1 knobs above each channel to send it into the delay, now this didnt seem right as i need 4 extra outputs on a soundcard to achieve this, so how am i doing it?

The weird thing is, i changed the delay to a reverb, and when turning the Aux 1 knob for each channel, it reverbed the track, but there was also a delay, as if the track was doubling up, so this makes me believe that theres something bad going on, where my audio is somewhere looping up/doubling on each channel, because i should be able to turn the aux 1 knob of each channel up fully so i get the full 100% of the FX, but its not happening like that, its really loud and sounds like its about to blow.

So does anyone know what is going on here? I've added some screenshots of how things in ableton are. Hope someone can help.

And maybe its that i simply cant safely apply traktor decks with FX from ableton as i dont have the spare outs on my soundcard, its just strange that can actually do it, it just doesnt feel safe, i might accidentally pull the aux 1 knob to high and blow the world up.

IMAGE 1: http://imgur.com/P19U3Ee,ywliE5o,a211AzF#0
IMAGE 2: http://imgur.com/P19U3Ee,ywliE5o,a211AzF#1
IMAGE 3: http://imgur.com/P19U3Ee,ywliE5o,a211AzF#2


Thank you

EDIT: uploaded images elsewhere and included link.
Temple Cervelli
04.01.2014
bump!
Temple Cervelli
27.12.2013
Cheers for replying dude.

Okay, well, ive got it all setup up now and im playing with it, i reduced the buffer size from 512 samples to 300 samples, but that didnt stop the delaying sound when turning the aux 1, i changed it higher and lower, it just made a really bad sound when i turned the auz 1 after that, so ive put it back to 512.

Im using all four OUTS on the back of the audio 10 for decks A-D,

Deck A - Out 3/4
Deck B - Out 5/6
Deck C - Out 7/8
Deck D - Out 9/10

and at the front of the audio 10, MAIN OUT 1/2 is Maschine, which goes to Return 1 of Xone 92,

I just have the INS free, MAIN IN 1/2, In 3/4 (deck A) is being used and is routed to AUX 1 of xone 92 (i dont know what this is doing...)

IN 9/10 is being used routed into the RECORD of my xone 92 to record mixes, so all thats free is MAIN in 1/2, IN 4/5, IN 7/8.

Could it be that Maschine MAIN OUT 1/2 to Return 1 is causing there to be a doubling up/delay sound on every channel when i turn the channel; Aux 1 knobs? Hopefully not....

And all i want to do, is have one delay plugin, and to be able to use it over all 4 traktor decks.. I'm just not sure how to do this, without getting the scary delaying/doubling all over the tracks.

Have you got live, could you set it up and screenshot it maybe? i bet its so simple, but im just not able to get it working without the chance of blowing my speakers.

And yeah, if thats called 'arming' in ableton, thats the only way the effect will work, the FX dont apply when its on 'auto' or 'off' so i assum i have to enable arm.
Cheers!
Meridith Betsinger
26.12.2013
I believe it's safe to say you're overbelieveing this

The A10 card is fine for your needs. Might want to change the ins and outs to make the setup "cleaner" but really .... it won't change a thing.

There is no need for more outputs on the A10 unless you want more FX channels.

You always have the option of doing your FX send internally, or using the Aux1(or 2 ... ) into the A10.

There will be a "delay" inside ableton ... reduce your buffer

The feedback loop sound you describe ... I can't explain why, but it's also happened to me when I've run a similar setup, perhaps the Aux1 on Mic/Rtn 1 is sending back sound to your card?


A10 input:
AUX 1 send -> main 9-10

A10 outputs:
A-D-> deck A-D
output Main 9-10 -> Aux 1 /Mic Rtn1

like this the Aux 1 on all channels will be directly going to Aux 1 output.
There is no need for 4 Aux channels, unless that's what you "want". The setup is fine as is.

It's perfectly normal to have to arm/monitor the FX track on ableton.

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