Traktor + S4 Glitches Ruined My Gig - HELP?

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Traktor + S4 Glitches Ruined My Gig - HELP?
Posted on: 05.01.2014 by Eden Danel
Hi DJTT Folks!

Been a long time since I've posted anything. I've been happily and comfortably DJing with a Kontrol S4, MacBook Pro, and usually some sort of revolving secondary controller (MF, MF Pro Beatmasher, MF 3D, Kontrol F1) since the tail end of 2010. My S4 has traveled around the USA and internationally with me and though the past few years as a Traktor user have not been 100% problem-free, generally glitches and issues have been infrequent, minor, and recoverable.

This weekend, however, Traktor embarrassed me in front of a convention hall full of people. The crowd may have been cool enough to be forgiving, but my set was musically completely ruined (and there weren't even CDJs on hand to salvage the set that way). I'm a little traumatized despite trying to keep a sense of humor about it all, and I'm concerned about this happening again at an upcoming gig. As much as I realize that any technology has the potential to fail, I really want to minimize the possibility of such a huge snafu happening again, especially not in such a high-profile situation.

This is what happened...
I was spinning this particular event with 5 other DJs and I was the last of the 6 to go on. At the beginning of the evening we all were given time to set up our gear and do a quick sound check to make sure that we had signal and our volume levels were where they should be. During setup, I noticed that my computer was unusually slow to boot up (more detail on that to come), but once everything was finally in place and I sound checked, it all seemed fine. The first 5 DJs all played their sets without incident and when my turn came, things started off normally but quickly went to hell.

I was running a simple 2 deck setup and using decks A and B. Tracks would play normally until I started to mix into the next one. Once the mixing had begun, one of the tracks would decide to lock up on me, the audio would drop out, and the bar in between the Master and Nudge Left buttons would flash. I was mortified, but hoped that this was a one-time glitch. Unfortunately, it proceeded to happen for the duration of the set, every single time I tried to mix two songs together. The tracks would glitch out anywhere from 5 to about 15 seconds into a mix and which deck would drop out was random. In a few cases, it was the track that had been originally playing, and in a few it was the new track I was trying to mix in. Sometimes the track would drop out for a second or two and then start playing again, thus instantly sounding like a trainwreck. If all I did was hit play and leave everything else alone, the track would be fine. Basically, any sort of mixing was rendered completely impossible.

Here's some general system specs:
NI Kontrol S4 MK1
Midi Fighter 3D
MacBook Pro 13.5" - OSX 10.8.5 (Mountain Lion), 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
Traktor Pro 2.6.5 (I have since updated to 2.6.6 via the Service Center)

If any other info or specs are needed, please let me know and I can post them.

A few other potentially notable points of info:

- During setup, my laptop took an unusually long time to boot up. It seemed to hang on the startup apple screen for an eternity and that had never happened before. Even once it was finally past, it seemed to take forever for my desktop to fully load. All other boot-ups since have been completely normal with no unusual hang times.

- No other programs were running and my AirPort was disabled. Both the MacBook Pro and the S4 were plugged in via their adapters.

- There was a lot of gear on the stage. A LOT. 6 DJs total, each with their own laptop/controller setup, all lined up next to each other across two long tables. And besides all the gear was all the typical light and sound gear you'd expect to find on a big stage setup. I've heard that sometimes the abundance of gear and all the different signals can cause things to glitch out and, after the gig, a couple of the guys I was spinning with noted that their laptops and/or software had been behaving strangely, though I was the only person to experience any noticeable glitches. I was also the last performer on and my gear, like everyone else's, had been sitting onstage all evening waiting for me. This was by no means the first time I've spun in such a large-scale setup, nothing like this has ever happened before. What can be done to protect yourself against interference from the gear around you?

- Is there any possibility that a bad RCA jack could be to blame? In every case where I've had a significant issue with dropouts, static, or freezing, my S4 had been hooked into the mixer via the RCA input (in all of those cases, however, I'd used the flimsy RCA cable provided for me... in the case of the incident I'm currently describing, I did use my own cabling). Generally, I use a 1/4 to RCA cable, with the 1/4 end running into the S4 to connect to an open channel on the mixer. In this case, the stage mixer had only 1/4 inputs, so I was connected with the RCA end going into the S4.


Anyone ever experienced an issue such as this one? If so, how did you cope with it and what can be done to safeguard against a similar instance in the future? Over the next few days I'm going to be doing a hard drive cleanup, some general stress tests, and otherwise making sure that my rig is as stable as possible. I'm not entirely sure what exactly caused the issue and if it was a software or hardware issue, but all I know is that I'm a bit traumatized and don't want to go through that again.

Any words of wisdom, help, or suggestions are welcome. Thanks for giving this a read!

Ilyssa
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
The jog wheel sensors are a common fault area on the S2 and S4, especially in loud environments. Do you need the jog wheel push feature for your mixing?
Nah, I can get by just fine without. Especially if disabling that featuring would help protect against a repeat occurrence.

As a side note, I was just having a practice session and had a quick freeze/dropout occur when I hit the sync button. This is all definitely frustrating, my rig was very stable for quite a long time so I'm definitely hoping that whatever's suddenly going on is fixable. At least I don't have any other gigs until the end of the month.
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
Overheating and power issues are unlikely to be the cause. Overheating would cause the CPU to undervolt, which could introduce small dropouts and glitches in the audio output, rather than affecting the playback of the track itself.

Power is unlikely to be an issue either, as the S4 can run fine off USB bus power, and the Macbook has its own UPS (the battery). The S4 is designed to run from a standard 500mA USB port, whereas Macbook USB ports are capable of providing over 1000mA; so that's another reason why power issues are unlikely.

If you press the jog wheel down when a track is playing, does the Phase meter (between Master and nudge) look the same as when the problems were happening?

Just gave it a try and yes, when I press on the jog wheel the phase meter looks exactly the same way as when the onstage problems occurred.
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by cheef
- CPU struggling?
- Hard disk imminent failure?
- Over heating?
- Too much power draw with all the gear there leaving the MacBook to struggle?

I'm going to be seeing if I can give the CPU a workout in my studio to try and determine if that came into play at all. Hard Drive has been backed up as a precaution and I'm in the process of a long-overdue clean out since there's far less space on there than I realized.

Something tells me, however, that overheating and a general power draw issue were the culprit here. Any suggestions on what can be done to protect against power draw on occasions where you've gotta play in an environment where there's a ton of gear onstage eating up resources?
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
Have you been able to recreate the glitch at home?

One possibility is that vibrations are triggering the jog wheel sensors, which can be fixed by disabling Jog Wheel Push in the S4 settings.

Thus far, things have been stable ever since that evening . Had the S4 hooked up earlier and played for over an hour with zero issues.
Eden Danel
05.01.2014
Hi DJTT Folks!

Been a long time since I've posted anything. I've been happily and comfortably DJing with a Kontrol S4, MacBook Pro, and usually some sort of revolving secondary controller (MF, MF Pro Beatmasher, MF 3D, Kontrol F1) since the tail end of 2010. My S4 has traveled around the USA and internationally with me and though the past few years as a Traktor user have not been 100% problem-free, generally glitches and issues have been infrequent, minor, and recoverable.

This weekend, however, Traktor embarrassed me in front of a convention hall full of people. The crowd may have been cool enough to be forgiving, but my set was musically completely ruined (and there weren't even CDJs on hand to salvage the set that way). I'm a little traumatized despite trying to keep a sense of humor about it all, and I'm concerned about this happening again at an upcoming gig. As much as I realize that any technology has the potential to fail, I really want to minimize the possibility of such a huge snafu happening again, especially not in such a high-profile situation.

This is what happened...
I was spinning this particular event with 5 other DJs and I was the last of the 6 to go on. At the beginning of the evening we all were given time to set up our gear and do a quick sound check to make sure that we had signal and our volume levels were where they should be. During setup, I noticed that my computer was unusually slow to boot up (more detail on that to come), but once everything was finally in place and I sound checked, it all seemed fine. The first 5 DJs all played their sets without incident and when my turn came, things started off normally but quickly went to hell.

I was running a simple 2 deck setup and using decks A and B. Tracks would play normally until I started to mix into the next one. Once the mixing had begun, one of the tracks would decide to lock up on me, the audio would drop out, and the bar in between the Master and Nudge Left buttons would flash. I was mortified, but hoped that this was a one-time glitch. Unfortunately, it proceeded to happen for the duration of the set, every single time I tried to mix two songs together. The tracks would glitch out anywhere from 5 to about 15 seconds into a mix and which deck would drop out was random. In a few cases, it was the track that had been originally playing, and in a few it was the new track I was trying to mix in. Sometimes the track would drop out for a second or two and then start playing again, thus instantly sounding like a trainwreck. If all I did was hit play and leave everything else alone, the track would be fine. Basically, any sort of mixing was rendered completely impossible.

Here's some general system specs:
NI Kontrol S4 MK1
Midi Fighter 3D
MacBook Pro 13.5" - OSX 10.8.5 (Mountain Lion), 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
Traktor Pro 2.6.5 (I have since updated to 2.6.6 via the Service Center)

If any other info or specs are needed, please let me know and I can post them.

A few other potentially notable points of info:

- During setup, my laptop took an unusually long time to boot up. It seemed to hang on the startup apple screen for an eternity and that had never happened before. Even once it was finally past, it seemed to take forever for my desktop to fully load. All other boot-ups since have been completely normal with no unusual hang times.

- No other programs were running and my AirPort was disabled. Both the MacBook Pro and the S4 were plugged in via their adapters.

- There was a lot of gear on the stage. A LOT. 6 DJs total, each with their own laptop/controller setup, all lined up next to each other across two long tables. And besides all the gear was all the typical light and sound gear you'd expect to find on a big stage setup. I've heard that sometimes the abundance of gear and all the different signals can cause things to glitch out and, after the gig, a couple of the guys I was spinning with noted that their laptops and/or software had been behaving strangely, though I was the only person to experience any noticeable glitches. I was also the last performer on and my gear, like everyone else's, had been sitting onstage all evening waiting for me. This was by no means the first time I've spun in such a large-scale setup, nothing like this has ever happened before. What can be done to protect yourself against interference from the gear around you?

- Is there any possibility that a bad RCA jack could be to blame? In every case where I've had a significant issue with dropouts, static, or freezing, my S4 had been hooked into the mixer via the RCA input (in all of those cases, however, I'd used the flimsy RCA cable provided for me... in the case of the incident I'm currently describing, I did use my own cabling). Generally, I use a 1/4 to RCA cable, with the 1/4 end running into the S4 to connect to an open channel on the mixer. In this case, the stage mixer had only 1/4 inputs, so I was connected with the RCA end going into the S4.


Anyone ever experienced an issue such as this one? If so, how did you cope with it and what can be done to safeguard against a similar instance in the future? Over the next few days I'm going to be doing a hard drive cleanup, some general stress tests, and otherwise making sure that my rig is as stable as possible. I'm not entirely sure what exactly caused the issue and if it was a software or hardware issue, but all I know is that I'm a bit traumatized and don't want to go through that again.

Any words of wisdom, help, or suggestions are welcome. Thanks for giving this a read!

Ilyssa
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
UPDATE:

I can try to take a video of this if need be now that I see how to force this glitch to happen...
Track will be playing in deck B, mix will be fine in my headphones. I'll notice that the LEDs on either side of the master level knob will freeze up and then if I hit shift + cue to return the track I'm about to mix in deck A to the beginning, an Audio drop-out will occur when I do so.

Not sure if this is a related issue or everything's just deciding to go at me on once, but any ideas on how to set it right or am I gonna have to get in touch with NI on this one?
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
The jog wheel sensors are a common fault area on the S2 and S4, especially in loud environments. Do you need the jog wheel push feature for your mixing?
Nah, I can get by just fine without. Especially if disabling that featuring would help protect against a repeat occurrence.

As a side note, I was just having a practice session and had a quick freeze/dropout occur when I hit the sync button. This is all definitely frustrating, my rig was very stable for quite a long time so I'm definitely hoping that whatever's suddenly going on is fixable. At least I don't have any other gigs until the end of the month.
Alphonso Deitchman
06.01.2014
The jog wheel sensors are a common fault area on the S2 and S4, especially in loud environments. Do you need the jog wheel push feature for your mixing?
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
Overheating and power issues are unlikely to be the cause. Overheating would cause the CPU to undervolt, which could introduce small dropouts and glitches in the audio output, rather than affecting the playback of the track itself.

Power is unlikely to be an issue either, as the S4 can run fine off USB bus power, and the Macbook has its own UPS (the battery). The S4 is designed to run from a standard 500mA USB port, whereas Macbook USB ports are capable of providing over 1000mA; so that's another reason why power issues are unlikely.

If you press the jog wheel down when a track is playing, does the Phase meter (between Master and nudge) look the same as when the problems were happening?

Just gave it a try and yes, when I press on the jog wheel the phase meter looks exactly the same way as when the onstage problems occurred.
Alphonso Deitchman
06.01.2014
Overheating and power issues are unlikely to be the cause. Overheating would cause the CPU to undervolt, which could introduce small dropouts and glitches in the audio output, rather than affecting the playback of the track itself.

Power is unlikely to be an issue either, as the S4 can run fine off USB bus power, and the Macbook has its own UPS (the battery). The S4 is designed to run from a standard 500mA USB port, whereas Macbook USB ports are capable of providing over 1000mA; so that's another reason why power issues are unlikely.

If you press the jog wheel down when a track is playing, does the Phase meter (between Master and nudge) look the same as when the problems were happening?
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by cheef
- CPU struggling?
- Hard disk imminent failure?
- Over heating?
- Too much power draw with all the gear there leaving the MacBook to struggle?

I'm going to be seeing if I can give the CPU a workout in my studio to try and determine if that came into play at all. Hard Drive has been backed up as a precaution and I'm in the process of a long-overdue clean out since there's far less space on there than I realized.

Something tells me, however, that overheating and a general power draw issue were the culprit here. Any suggestions on what can be done to protect against power draw on occasions where you've gotta play in an environment where there's a ton of gear onstage eating up resources?
Hulda Ramprasad
06.01.2014
- CPU struggling?
- Hard disk imminent failure?
- Over heating?
- Too much power draw with all the gear there leaving the MacBook to struggle?
Eden Danel
06.01.2014
Originally Posted by makar1
Have you been able to recreate the glitch at home?

One possibility is that vibrations are triggering the jog wheel sensors, which can be fixed by disabling Jog Wheel Push in the S4 settings.

Thus far, things have been stable ever since that evening . Had the S4 hooked up earlier and played for over an hour with zero issues.
Alphonso Deitchman
05.01.2014
Have you been able to recreate the glitch at home?

One possibility is that vibrations are triggering the jog wheel sensors, which can be fixed by disabling Jog Wheel Push in the S4 settings.

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